I've never seen many movies, but I made a list of them and now I've seen a few more, but still haven't seen many.
Do the Right Thing
1989
We heard from Fisher in discussions about Casablanca and A Clockwork Orange, and he was gracious enough to chat via email about Do the Right Thing as well. Our conversation is below, and slightly edited for formatting reasons. Also, spoilers if you haven't seen this film yet. Just do yourself a favor and watch the movie right now, and then read on.
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Joe: Alright, I literally just got to the end of the movie, and rushed off to the computer to send you this email and say: HOLY SHIT. Do the Right Thing smashed through every conceivable expectation I had for it. I'm going to do some more research and come up with some good talking points, but in the meantime, consider this the beginning of our conversation. I definitely want to start with the important question: Why is this a movie that you wanted to talk about? Was it just because it was a fantastic film, or do your ties run deeper? I wouldn't blame you if it were the former, to be honest. The way I feel now, that shaky post-movie-watching feeling that I only get after a movie truly gut-punches me, only happens to me around one out of every 30 or so movies I watch, and I did NOT expect it after this one.
Fisher: I watched this last night to get a refresher. This movie holds a place in my heart as perhaps the first film my class studied in my ill-fated attempt at a film major. I played hooky a day or two later to stay home and watch this movie, circa '06. I don't know that I'd seen it since, before last night, but I was able to recall a good bit. It definitely stuck with me.
The authenticity is flawless, as the subject matter and location are baked into Spike Lee's DNA. There was the occasional hiccup, but otherwise, almost every interaction between people felt more like a documentary than a film. The characters are so rich and so I couldn't just point to anyone as a "good" person or "bad" person. Save for Mookie's sister Jade, everybody at least had a little awful to offset any good they carried. You don't even need a dialogue, you can spend all day debating yourself on the merits of everybody you see on screen.
My viewing last night also made me realize how much comedy is in this thing. Multiple characters bringing the chuckles.
The authenticity is flawless, as the subject matter and location are baked into Spike Lee's DNA. There was the occasional hiccup, but otherwise, almost every interaction between people felt more like a documentary than a film. The characters are so rich and so I couldn't just point to anyone as a "good" person or "bad" person. Save for Mookie's sister Jade, everybody at least had a little awful to offset any good they carried. You don't even need a dialogue, you can spend all day debating yourself on the merits of everybody you see on screen.
My viewing last night also made me realize how much comedy is in this thing. Multiple characters bringing the chuckles.
Joe: I think you hit the nail on the head regarding what is the most "important" aspect of Do the Right Thing, if such a thing could even be pinpointed in the first place: the fact that there are so many different sides in the equation that leads to the Radio vs. Sal conflict that it's almost impossible to break it down. Empathy for everyone, and disdain for everyone—none of the major players sit out of the whole racist monologue montage, as far as I can tell. But yeah, you're absolutely right that we could spend all day debating who's "at fault" the most.
The back 1/4th of the movie surprised me for so many reasons, and I want to get to them, but I'll stay with the point we're already on: I thought for sure that when Da Mayor told Mookie to "do the right thing," that eventually we'd see someone in the film—anyone, really—do "the right thing," whatever that meant in context. But so I was kind of surprised to find out that no one was able to do what was "right," at least from my perspective, and ultimately that led to violence and destruction and death.
Now, I'm not here to say that I know what "the right thing to do" would even fucking be in such a situation. After all, it was almost exactly a year ago when my own Port Richmond neighborhood was ransacked and I was getting so fucking angry that anyone could give a fuck about a goddamn Target being looted when the police are systematically murdering black men at a higher clip than anyone else........... not to get too far into the weeds here (and this should obviously speak volumes about how relevant Do the Right Thing is more than 30 years later), and the obvious key difference here being that we see Sal and we see his good and bad attributes and Sal's Famous is far removed from a corporation owned by nameless, faceless corporate pigs........ I'm losing track of my point.
Okay, my point was that it is really hard to even say what the "right thing" is, and I thought that this film did a fantastic job of making that point clear. Really poignant shit.
So I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. I'd also like to hear some of your favorite comedic moments, to lighten the mood and even out with the vitriolic shit that I dropped a few paragraphs up.
The back 1/4th of the movie surprised me for so many reasons, and I want to get to them, but I'll stay with the point we're already on: I thought for sure that when Da Mayor told Mookie to "do the right thing," that eventually we'd see someone in the film—anyone, really—do "the right thing," whatever that meant in context. But so I was kind of surprised to find out that no one was able to do what was "right," at least from my perspective, and ultimately that led to violence and destruction and death.
Now, I'm not here to say that I know what "the right thing to do" would even fucking be in such a situation. After all, it was almost exactly a year ago when my own Port Richmond neighborhood was ransacked and I was getting so fucking angry that anyone could give a fuck about a goddamn Target being looted when the police are systematically murdering black men at a higher clip than anyone else........... not to get too far into the weeds here (and this should obviously speak volumes about how relevant Do the Right Thing is more than 30 years later), and the obvious key difference here being that we see Sal and we see his good and bad attributes and Sal's Famous is far removed from a corporation owned by nameless, faceless corporate pigs........ I'm losing track of my point.
Okay, my point was that it is really hard to even say what the "right thing" is, and I thought that this film did a fantastic job of making that point clear. Really poignant shit.
So I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. I'd also like to hear some of your favorite comedic moments, to lighten the mood and even out with the vitriolic shit that I dropped a few paragraphs up.
Fisher: It genuinely just dawned on me: the heat was an ever-present oppressor in the movie and "the heat" is a nickname for police. Oh shit.
While it is of course open to debate by design, Spike gave his official view of the ending in an interview years ago. He doesn't hold your hand with his words but he definitively stated that if you feel bad for Sal in the end, you are wrong.
For a while I suspect I did. And I do still feel some sadness for him. Up until he smashes the radio and drops N-bombs, I thought Sal was a rock-solid dude (that view hasn't changed much if at all). It's '89 and Sal seems to be in his 50s. So you've got an Italian American man born in the '30s and raised in Brooklyn. That's a recipe for a racist if I've ever seen one. His son describes how his friends insult him for working in a black neighborhood in the '80s. I'm quite sure Sal got it worse from his friends when he opened the shop in the '60s. He gives money to the local bum, money to the disabled man. His employee Mookie is a terrible employee, but he never gives up on him. I don't see a man putting on a performance, I see a white man treating people well regardless of color.
But it's been a long, hot day, there's people screaming in his face... and the latent racism boils to the surface. And when he was asked about Radio Raheem: "Ya do what ya gotta do." And therein lies the tricky part. This dude threw a racial slur and smashed expensive equipment with a bat. That's a bad guy. But goddamn it if the previous 4/5ths of the movie didn't paint this man as damn near a saint.
Da Mayor says "Do the right thing," but he hasn't done the right thing in ages. Buggin' Out's mission is noble, but dude was ready to throw hands over a scuffed sneaker. Radio Raheem was murdered by bullies, and he himself was a bully. The three old black dudes never bother anyone, but they're racist towards the Koreans.
It's just a hell of a piece in terms of its ability to exercise your mind. There's so much data to allow for so many questions. The movie ends with the fairly opposed quotes from MLK and Malcolm X concerning violence. Basically reassuring the audience "If you don't know how to feel about this, don't worry. Nobody does." Though Malcolm's quote got the last word, and that word did not rule out violence.
Comedically, this movie really is rich. Da Mayor has some great lines. Spike Lee is a terrible actor and with that he was deadpan. But that delivery might have worked for the better:
"Doctor, this is Da Mayor talking"
"All right, all right."
"Doctor."
"Come on what, what?"
"Always do the right thing."
"That's it?!"
"That's it."
"I got it, I'm gone."
Buggin' Out's neuroses lend themselves to comedy. Rosie Perez was great and thankfully given a career as a result of this. And the comedy MVP for me goes to Sweet Dick Willy. "Man, you out your fuckin' mind?! It ain't never too hot... or never too cold for fuckin', hear me?! Shit I had my best piece of woman on a humid day."
While it is of course open to debate by design, Spike gave his official view of the ending in an interview years ago. He doesn't hold your hand with his words but he definitively stated that if you feel bad for Sal in the end, you are wrong.
For a while I suspect I did. And I do still feel some sadness for him. Up until he smashes the radio and drops N-bombs, I thought Sal was a rock-solid dude (that view hasn't changed much if at all). It's '89 and Sal seems to be in his 50s. So you've got an Italian American man born in the '30s and raised in Brooklyn. That's a recipe for a racist if I've ever seen one. His son describes how his friends insult him for working in a black neighborhood in the '80s. I'm quite sure Sal got it worse from his friends when he opened the shop in the '60s. He gives money to the local bum, money to the disabled man. His employee Mookie is a terrible employee, but he never gives up on him. I don't see a man putting on a performance, I see a white man treating people well regardless of color.
But it's been a long, hot day, there's people screaming in his face... and the latent racism boils to the surface. And when he was asked about Radio Raheem: "Ya do what ya gotta do." And therein lies the tricky part. This dude threw a racial slur and smashed expensive equipment with a bat. That's a bad guy. But goddamn it if the previous 4/5ths of the movie didn't paint this man as damn near a saint.
Da Mayor says "Do the right thing," but he hasn't done the right thing in ages. Buggin' Out's mission is noble, but dude was ready to throw hands over a scuffed sneaker. Radio Raheem was murdered by bullies, and he himself was a bully. The three old black dudes never bother anyone, but they're racist towards the Koreans.
It's just a hell of a piece in terms of its ability to exercise your mind. There's so much data to allow for so many questions. The movie ends with the fairly opposed quotes from MLK and Malcolm X concerning violence. Basically reassuring the audience "If you don't know how to feel about this, don't worry. Nobody does." Though Malcolm's quote got the last word, and that word did not rule out violence.
Comedically, this movie really is rich. Da Mayor has some great lines. Spike Lee is a terrible actor and with that he was deadpan. But that delivery might have worked for the better:
"Doctor, this is Da Mayor talking"
"All right, all right."
"Doctor."
"Come on what, what?"
"Always do the right thing."
"That's it?!"
"That's it."
"I got it, I'm gone."
Buggin' Out's neuroses lend themselves to comedy. Rosie Perez was great and thankfully given a career as a result of this. And the comedy MVP for me goes to Sweet Dick Willy. "Man, you out your fuckin' mind?! It ain't never too hot... or never too cold for fuckin', hear me?! Shit I had my best piece of woman on a humid day."
Joe: I did some cursory research trying to find that Lee interview about his own answers about the ending. Couldn't find it, hopefully I can at some point. But if he really did give such an answer—that at least some empathy for one character some of the time is wrong—then I can't say I agree with him. I decree death of the author and all that. The ambiguity, and like you said, having so much data, is really the point.
The only thing I did read Spike Lee saying was about Mookie's decision to throw the trash can through Sal's window. Lee says that plenty of people have asked him "Did Mookie do the right thing?" Lee doesn't answer, but he does point out that not a single person of color has ever been the one to ask that question to him. Which kind of took me back a step, ya know? It was a question that I was mulling over for a bit before I saw Lee's quote, but then it became... should I be mulling it over? Is there an obvious answer that I can't see because of my privilege? Maybe! Like, being two white guys, I'm not even sure there is room for that side of the discussion in our conversation. Would asking that question be proving a point?
I think, as hard as it is for me to say, given the current state of race relations in 2021, that it's probably better to have a reaction to Do the Right Thing like "this is so fucked up, it's all so fucked up" than "we need to come up with a SOLUTION." As if watching a movie could provide a solution. As if activists haven't been working toward a solution for decades now. I dunno. Still doesn't mean I didn't choke up during the climax of this film. Despite the overall "life goes on" tone of the next-day epilogue, it really did feel hopeless, and that's fucking powerful.
In fact, as a film, I'm more comfortable with this notion than, say, something like Green Book. I can look at a video of George Floyd and feel hopeless. Do the Right Thing is telling me that that is a valid emotion. Bullshit like Green Book is telling me nonsense like, well, if you just invite a black man over for dinner, none of your extremely racist family members will be racist anymore!!! So even putting aside what's right, what's wrong, politics, all that, I think Do the Right Thing is, out of all the movies I've ever seen that at least touch on this subject, the most true-to-life one I've watched. It was complex and confusing, but fucking TRUE.
Shifting back a bit—being internet friends means I don't know much about your personal history, so it was interesting to read that you took a stab at film school. I obviously never have, so I'm always interesting in picking the brains of people who are more familiar with the "art of cinema" than I am. Like, I could talk all day about how this film makes me feel, but I can talk much less about the bones of the structure of this film that made it so. I'm talking about editing, cinematography, the mise-en-scène, if you will.
One thing I always lean on is my sparse understanding of the "dutch angle," how canting the camera angle makes things seem more absurd on screen, or heightened. Probably the best movie I've seen in this project so far was Brief Encounter, which utilized such an angle during its climax. I was interested to see the angle employed during most scenes involving Radio. How it made the character seem larger than life (or, as AVClub said, like he was a Batman character). What are we to make of this? That Radio perhaps was supposed to feel larger than life, which would then make his downfall (i.e. being murdered) seem larger as well, and thus more tragic?
It's probable that I don't know what I'm talking about. Give me that sweet film school pedigree, which you have, even if you didn't go a full four years. What are some things in this movie, some bits and pieces, that someone like me wouldn't notice, at least consciously? I can tell enough that I think Spike Lee is a good director, but wouldn't be able to explain why. (Yes, you are right though, hilariously bad actor... but it kinda worked for me, though, after a while?)
The only thing I did read Spike Lee saying was about Mookie's decision to throw the trash can through Sal's window. Lee says that plenty of people have asked him "Did Mookie do the right thing?" Lee doesn't answer, but he does point out that not a single person of color has ever been the one to ask that question to him. Which kind of took me back a step, ya know? It was a question that I was mulling over for a bit before I saw Lee's quote, but then it became... should I be mulling it over? Is there an obvious answer that I can't see because of my privilege? Maybe! Like, being two white guys, I'm not even sure there is room for that side of the discussion in our conversation. Would asking that question be proving a point?
I think, as hard as it is for me to say, given the current state of race relations in 2021, that it's probably better to have a reaction to Do the Right Thing like "this is so fucked up, it's all so fucked up" than "we need to come up with a SOLUTION." As if watching a movie could provide a solution. As if activists haven't been working toward a solution for decades now. I dunno. Still doesn't mean I didn't choke up during the climax of this film. Despite the overall "life goes on" tone of the next-day epilogue, it really did feel hopeless, and that's fucking powerful.
In fact, as a film, I'm more comfortable with this notion than, say, something like Green Book. I can look at a video of George Floyd and feel hopeless. Do the Right Thing is telling me that that is a valid emotion. Bullshit like Green Book is telling me nonsense like, well, if you just invite a black man over for dinner, none of your extremely racist family members will be racist anymore!!! So even putting aside what's right, what's wrong, politics, all that, I think Do the Right Thing is, out of all the movies I've ever seen that at least touch on this subject, the most true-to-life one I've watched. It was complex and confusing, but fucking TRUE.
Shifting back a bit—being internet friends means I don't know much about your personal history, so it was interesting to read that you took a stab at film school. I obviously never have, so I'm always interesting in picking the brains of people who are more familiar with the "art of cinema" than I am. Like, I could talk all day about how this film makes me feel, but I can talk much less about the bones of the structure of this film that made it so. I'm talking about editing, cinematography, the mise-en-scène, if you will.
One thing I always lean on is my sparse understanding of the "dutch angle," how canting the camera angle makes things seem more absurd on screen, or heightened. Probably the best movie I've seen in this project so far was Brief Encounter, which utilized such an angle during its climax. I was interested to see the angle employed during most scenes involving Radio. How it made the character seem larger than life (or, as AVClub said, like he was a Batman character). What are we to make of this? That Radio perhaps was supposed to feel larger than life, which would then make his downfall (i.e. being murdered) seem larger as well, and thus more tragic?
It's probable that I don't know what I'm talking about. Give me that sweet film school pedigree, which you have, even if you didn't go a full four years. What are some things in this movie, some bits and pieces, that someone like me wouldn't notice, at least consciously? I can tell enough that I think Spike Lee is a good director, but wouldn't be able to explain why. (Yes, you are right though, hilariously bad actor... but it kinda worked for me, though, after a while?)
Fisher: Come to think of it, I saw that interview as an excerpt on Reddit. The poster did not give their source, so I can't stand by it 100%.
That is wild that only white people have asked him, though. But I trust he's not lying. But yeah: Sal lost his restaurant, Radio lost his life. Insurance money will bring Sal's restaurant back to life, nothing will bring Radio back to life.
I recognize fully that my/our race and upbringings are a factor in our ability to interpret this piece. But for me, I'm not comfortable with abstaining from a discussion based on elements outside of my control. 100% I do not fully grasp the nuance because of my privilege. White guilt is real but its validity is conditional. I do not wish to validate here. Spike proposed these questions through an avenue largely viewed by white audiences. And the redundant point of the hour: this thing is just loaded with ambiguity. I'd feel dishonest to assume Spike thought "Some scenes are off-limits for white people to discuss". I'm of course tiptoeing as I think and as I write this very email. Shit is delicate. I honestly spent fifteen to 20 minutes writing this one paragraph.
I recognize fully that my/our race and upbringings are a factor in our ability to interpret this piece. But for me, I'm not comfortable with abstaining from a discussion based on elements outside of my control. 100% I do not fully grasp the nuance because of my privilege. White guilt is real but its validity is conditional. I do not wish to validate here. Spike proposed these questions through an avenue largely viewed by white audiences. And the redundant point of the hour: this thing is just loaded with ambiguity. I'd feel dishonest to assume Spike thought "Some scenes are off-limits for white people to discuss". I'm of course tiptoeing as I think and as I write this very email. Shit is delicate. I honestly spent fifteen to 20 minutes writing this one paragraph.
I think you're dead on the money regarding your reaction the movie. It didn't look for "the" solution, nor does it seek to encourage you that way. I get more of a "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!" vibe (a reference to Network—if you haven't seen it, definitely YouTube that scene).
This has no Hollywood sheen to it. It's as if an invisible man and camera hung out on a street in Bed-Stuy on a really hot day. But oh no that's terrible because that means he filmed a naked Rosie Perez without her consent.
Comedy is my defense mechanism.
I understand the existence of Green Book, and why it would be made the way it was. No desire to see it, to your point it seems like they used child-proof scissors where a scalpel was needed.
Comedy is my defense mechanism.
I understand the existence of Green Book, and why it would be made the way it was. No desire to see it, to your point it seems like they used child-proof scissors where a scalpel was needed.
I'm embarrassed to have gotten your hopes up about the film school stuff, but there's a chance even you know more technical aspects than I do. I had only a small number of inconsequential film classes before I dropped out. Gotta satisfy those core classes.
And honestly, I'm almost exclusively interested in how a movie makes me feel, certainly on the first go-'round. I do occasionally watch videos and read articles on the structural elements. I've always heard "bad editing is easy to notice, good editing is not." I don't have a great grasp on blocking, but it seems that executing it on set would be intuitive. I know nothing of lighting, flares, lenses, etc. But I do know a good shot, stoic or otherwise, can absolutely "wow" me. So cinematography is fun to explore.
I just know I've been a movie junkie since my single digits. I can't confidently pick the single biggest cause. My best guesses are: I just like a good story, and you get to see the closest thing to magic. Monsters and aliens and witches and mutants and ghosts and lasers and explosions and karate AND boobs. Just really cool shit. Movies are great.
And honestly, I'm almost exclusively interested in how a movie makes me feel, certainly on the first go-'round. I do occasionally watch videos and read articles on the structural elements. I've always heard "bad editing is easy to notice, good editing is not." I don't have a great grasp on blocking, but it seems that executing it on set would be intuitive. I know nothing of lighting, flares, lenses, etc. But I do know a good shot, stoic or otherwise, can absolutely "wow" me. So cinematography is fun to explore.
I just know I've been a movie junkie since my single digits. I can't confidently pick the single biggest cause. My best guesses are: I just like a good story, and you get to see the closest thing to magic. Monsters and aliens and witches and mutants and ghosts and lasers and explosions and karate AND boobs. Just really cool shit. Movies are great.
I do like your take about canted angles though. Yeah, Radio was more like a force than a human. You get no sense of where he comes from nor why he is the way he is. He's presented with an air of intangibility. But even this big, bad, take-no-shit force of nature is reduced to a statistic. Reminding everyone in the neighborhood to "know your place."
But I genuinely couldn't begin to give you insider knowledge. And I'm not being coy. I've been around film nerds who will start diving in, and I just sit there like "Yeah I thought it was pretty cool too." Truly, only in my 30s have I been bothering to start to absorb what I can.
I haven't seen much Spike. Growing up, I had no interest in him. Shit, growing up I couldn't begin to understand the truth of his movies. By now I've seen I think four of his movies, two of which were largely absent race relations, so I'm not comfortable speaking to what makes him such a good director. But if in only using this and BlacKkKlansman, then I've got a few things. His confidence in his vision is resolute. He knows that everyone, good or bad, has a reason they are good or bad. He doesn't hold your hand. He WANTS you to come to your own conclusion and he knows what you need to see/hear to get there.
You didn't mention Sweet Dick Willy even once. Did you watch this movie?
I haven't seen much Spike. Growing up, I had no interest in him. Shit, growing up I couldn't begin to understand the truth of his movies. By now I've seen I think four of his movies, two of which were largely absent race relations, so I'm not comfortable speaking to what makes him such a good director. But if in only using this and BlacKkKlansman, then I've got a few things. His confidence in his vision is resolute. He knows that everyone, good or bad, has a reason they are good or bad. He doesn't hold your hand. He WANTS you to come to your own conclusion and he knows what you need to see/hear to get there.
You didn't mention Sweet Dick Willy even once. Did you watch this movie?
Joe: Ha! You got me.
I really did appreciate the three dudes chilling in the heat across from the Korean grocery store. Big fan of Frankie Faison from The Wire. Like how the one dude was talking (credibly!) about the ice caps, and the other two were giving him shit. Robin Harris was good as Sweet Dick Willy too. He had a presence that I feel like I recognized from something else? But Wikipedia tells me this is the first time I ever saw him in anything.
What do we think about the acting in this movie overall? I have a few competing thoughts. One is a bit of discomfort that Danny Aiello was the only Oscar nominated performance out of this bunch. Not that he didn't deserve to get nominated—I thought he did pretty great—but more that he was the only one nominated? And additionally that the Oscars thought to nominate one of the only white people in the cast? I think it's half that I hate when the Oscars do that shit, half to do with the fact that we are supposed to question whether we should like Sal or not... and yeah, half that there are just so many other good performances here.
My other thought is that I only really appreciate the performances because I am appreciative of "campy" performances. To repeat the phrase—larger than life. This could've been a gritty film, but Lee chose to shoot in it bright colors, over-the-top characters, magical realism (in the fourth-wall breaking), and so on. I can see why people might not like that kind of thing, but I love it. Was it NECESSARY to plot or theme to have Rosie Perez dance to "Fight the Power" through the opening credits? Probably not. But holy shit, man, it made me hooked immediately. Might be one of the most fun opening credits I've ever seen, period. So I'll ask you to tell me about what non-Sweet-Dick performances you thought were worthy of a shout out, and what non-Mookie performances did you think were weak, if any?
And I'm sorry to blow you up about the film school thing. Like I said, I'm more comfortable talking about the "what" than the "how" anyway. I feel like there's too much pressure in film discussions to touch on that stuff anyway. When I go to Book Club, we're rarely talking about language and grammar, we're talking about big ideas and emotions, ya know? So let's agree that, though we could certainly theoretically have a more in-depth discussion, it's more important to talk about what we feel in the gut.
So yeah, I'm not at a point where I can say why I like Spike Lee, but I know I do. I've only ever seen BlacKkKlansman (thought Malcom X and 25th Hour are on my list too (oh, and sidenote, you mentioned Network as well, which is also on my list)), so I can only speak to those two films. And I'll say that I 3/4ths agree with you on your Lee take, just based on the two films I've seen. Confidence in his vision? Overwhelmingly so. He wants you to come to your own conclusion? I'm halfway there with you. I think, within the world of the movies he creates (again—I'm only referring to two movies here), there might be some ambiguity (with DtRT, obviously, BKkK less so), but I think these two films stand out in that the conclusions are not left ambiguous, but are rather underlined profusely. With BlacKkKlansman, it was: ya know that story you just watched and maybe laughed at occasionally? Well, motherfucker, stop laughing, because white supremacy is happening RIGHT NOW, and they're carrying their tiki torches. With DtRT, the underlining is with the quotes at the end: I don't know the answer, the audience doesn't know the answer, and not even MLK and MX could agree on the answer!
The similarities I saw in both of these movies were that the first 3/4ths+ of the movie presented it as one thing, and then Spike Lee pulls the rug out from under you. I mean, I thought I was gobsmacked at the conclusion of BKkK, but the I got to DtRT. When Sal flips out and smashes the radio, I was stunned, and it only escalated from there! Goddamn, what a movie.
Okay, so you're tasked with talking about the acting and the directing. I'll tack this on as well: what do we make of the Radio Raheem monologue of "love and hate"?
I really did appreciate the three dudes chilling in the heat across from the Korean grocery store. Big fan of Frankie Faison from The Wire. Like how the one dude was talking (credibly!) about the ice caps, and the other two were giving him shit. Robin Harris was good as Sweet Dick Willy too. He had a presence that I feel like I recognized from something else? But Wikipedia tells me this is the first time I ever saw him in anything.
What do we think about the acting in this movie overall? I have a few competing thoughts. One is a bit of discomfort that Danny Aiello was the only Oscar nominated performance out of this bunch. Not that he didn't deserve to get nominated—I thought he did pretty great—but more that he was the only one nominated? And additionally that the Oscars thought to nominate one of the only white people in the cast? I think it's half that I hate when the Oscars do that shit, half to do with the fact that we are supposed to question whether we should like Sal or not... and yeah, half that there are just so many other good performances here.
My other thought is that I only really appreciate the performances because I am appreciative of "campy" performances. To repeat the phrase—larger than life. This could've been a gritty film, but Lee chose to shoot in it bright colors, over-the-top characters, magical realism (in the fourth-wall breaking), and so on. I can see why people might not like that kind of thing, but I love it. Was it NECESSARY to plot or theme to have Rosie Perez dance to "Fight the Power" through the opening credits? Probably not. But holy shit, man, it made me hooked immediately. Might be one of the most fun opening credits I've ever seen, period. So I'll ask you to tell me about what non-Sweet-Dick performances you thought were worthy of a shout out, and what non-Mookie performances did you think were weak, if any?
And I'm sorry to blow you up about the film school thing. Like I said, I'm more comfortable talking about the "what" than the "how" anyway. I feel like there's too much pressure in film discussions to touch on that stuff anyway. When I go to Book Club, we're rarely talking about language and grammar, we're talking about big ideas and emotions, ya know? So let's agree that, though we could certainly theoretically have a more in-depth discussion, it's more important to talk about what we feel in the gut.
So yeah, I'm not at a point where I can say why I like Spike Lee, but I know I do. I've only ever seen BlacKkKlansman (thought Malcom X and 25th Hour are on my list too (oh, and sidenote, you mentioned Network as well, which is also on my list)), so I can only speak to those two films. And I'll say that I 3/4ths agree with you on your Lee take, just based on the two films I've seen. Confidence in his vision? Overwhelmingly so. He wants you to come to your own conclusion? I'm halfway there with you. I think, within the world of the movies he creates (again—I'm only referring to two movies here), there might be some ambiguity (with DtRT, obviously, BKkK less so), but I think these two films stand out in that the conclusions are not left ambiguous, but are rather underlined profusely. With BlacKkKlansman, it was: ya know that story you just watched and maybe laughed at occasionally? Well, motherfucker, stop laughing, because white supremacy is happening RIGHT NOW, and they're carrying their tiki torches. With DtRT, the underlining is with the quotes at the end: I don't know the answer, the audience doesn't know the answer, and not even MLK and MX could agree on the answer!
The similarities I saw in both of these movies were that the first 3/4ths+ of the movie presented it as one thing, and then Spike Lee pulls the rug out from under you. I mean, I thought I was gobsmacked at the conclusion of BKkK, but the I got to DtRT. When Sal flips out and smashes the radio, I was stunned, and it only escalated from there! Goddamn, what a movie.
Okay, so you're tasked with talking about the acting and the directing. I'll tack this on as well: what do we make of the Radio Raheem monologue of "love and hate"?
Fisher: While it's entirely possible this movie fell victim to Oscars racism, I'm kinda scratching my head to see who else could get nominated. Well I think I have four total candidates: Sal, Pino, Da Mayor, and Buggin' Out. Buggin' Out probably misses out due to screen time, but I loved him, and the actor. Da Mayor I would say spends enough time so he could have gotten one, he was completely dialed in. Pino because I think he did a great job. Dude really, really hated working there. And Sal, but he got his. Yeah, I would limit my standouts to those four. Oooh, Rosie Perez in her debut was also fantastic. Aside from Spike Lee, I'd say nobody was particularly bad. And even then Spike wasn't BAD, just not very good.
I'm fully prepared to change my old answer about Spike's intentions to yours. Very good points about what and why he'll show you what he shows you. He certainly has an agenda.
My money for biggest gut punch goes to BKkK. It was a heartbreaker to see the violence and murder in DtRT, but I had no idea of the Charlottesville footage showing up. That jarring switch from narrative to real life. The editing of the footage, the footage itself. That rug pull caused me to leave the house for a cigarette because I didn't wanna cry in front of my roommates. But as a viewing experience I prefer DtRT. It really is phenomenal.
As for Radio Raheem's monologue, I am happy that someone who is brutish, I suspect impoverished, oppressed, etc., would give love the big W. He sees a lot of hate in his life I'm sure. Hmm, so Radio Raheem talks of violence first, then of peace. After the film Spike shows us a message of peace first, then one of violence. Radio did say they were always fighting one another. Double hmm because, in his demonstration, love wins through violence.
Me personally, I think the use of violence is reserved for so few instances. It's difficult to justify it for anything short of self-defense or pre-empting a likely eminent threat. I for sure could go into the weeds debating this in the realm of civil disobedience. I might come out the other end more open to violence and I don't fear that. But for now, throwing hands is the lastest of resorts.
Me personally, I think the use of violence is reserved for so few instances. It's difficult to justify it for anything short of self-defense or pre-empting a likely eminent threat. I for sure could go into the weeds debating this in the realm of civil disobedience. I might come out the other end more open to violence and I don't fear that. But for now, throwing hands is the lastest of resorts.
Joe: Shit. Meant to compose an email before I started Sixers-drinking. Whoops. So instead of a meticulous email, you get one tapped out on my phone at McGillin's before the game starts. We're at the finish line anyway, might as well move to the miscellaneous thought.
Buggin' Out—do you watch Breaking Bad / Better Call Saul? If so, how fucking WILD is it that Gus Fring is the same actor?
"Fight the Power"—have you ever listened to any other Public Enemy music? I have not, but the lyric "most of my heroes don't appear on a stamp" and the anti-Elvis stuff has piqued my interest enough that I'm gonna give it a go soon.
A big reason that the three sidewalk-chillin' dudes were the best—the argument about the polar ice caps. Would love to hear what these guys have to say about the subject now.
Sam L Jackson—I feel like the idea of a radio host essentially "narrating" the movie is a trope, no? I can't think of other examples now (besides Wet Hot American Summer, which I understand is parody and not to be included). Can you? Or maybe you can find it on TVTropes, which I cannot on McGillin's wifi?
Doesn't Sweet Dee do a purposefully racist impression of Rosie Perez in It's Always Sunny, or am I making that up?
Going back to the Gus Fring thing, are there any actors here that you have a FAVORITE performance of theirs that isn't Do the Right Thing?
And I know we already hammered the point home, but I feel like it's worth asking in another way: if Do the Right Thing refused to answer moral/ethic questions, and benefited from that, does that mean that other movies that DO answer questions of "who is right/wrong here?" suffer for that? Or is it conditional/contextual?
And if you have anything else to add or ask, tack it on here!
Buggin' Out—do you watch Breaking Bad / Better Call Saul? If so, how fucking WILD is it that Gus Fring is the same actor?
"Fight the Power"—have you ever listened to any other Public Enemy music? I have not, but the lyric "most of my heroes don't appear on a stamp" and the anti-Elvis stuff has piqued my interest enough that I'm gonna give it a go soon.
A big reason that the three sidewalk-chillin' dudes were the best—the argument about the polar ice caps. Would love to hear what these guys have to say about the subject now.
Sam L Jackson—I feel like the idea of a radio host essentially "narrating" the movie is a trope, no? I can't think of other examples now (besides Wet Hot American Summer, which I understand is parody and not to be included). Can you? Or maybe you can find it on TVTropes, which I cannot on McGillin's wifi?
Doesn't Sweet Dee do a purposefully racist impression of Rosie Perez in It's Always Sunny, or am I making that up?
Going back to the Gus Fring thing, are there any actors here that you have a FAVORITE performance of theirs that isn't Do the Right Thing?
And I know we already hammered the point home, but I feel like it's worth asking in another way: if Do the Right Thing refused to answer moral/ethic questions, and benefited from that, does that mean that other movies that DO answer questions of "who is right/wrong here?" suffer for that? Or is it conditional/contextual?
And if you have anything else to add or ask, tack it on here!
Fisher: I saw Breaking Bad after this movie but didn't know the connection. Giancarlo's fantastic, and I've seen him pop up in a few things here and there. Breaking Bad was a a catalyst for his career and it's long overdue.
Regarding "Fight the Power," I love you calling out that lyric because it's the from the only bit of the song I remember. This movie encouraged my purchase of It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back a decade or so ago. I don't know it well, but it's got some bangers on there.
I'd love to hear them talk about anything at all. I don't think they'd be surprised by any bit of bad news about the ice caps.
I'm new to the existence of TVTropes but I tried in my search and was empty. I guess The Sandlot in a way is like that. Though the story is not going out over Smalls' airwaves. I like Sam Jackson's role in this. Something of a heartbeat of the film. A place to rest your head as the movie simmers inside of it.
I'd wager good money Rosie Perez was the inspiration for the Sweet Dee bit. [Editor's note: Okay, I'm back from McGillin's and I found the clip.] Perez is also a gem in White Men Can't Jump. Hilarious movie.
If we're talking roles for actors outside of Do the Right Thing, then it's probably just Giancarlo Esposito as Gus Fring being more interesting than Buggin' Out. Everybody else I've mostly barely witnessed outside of DtRT if at all. Well, it's not my favorite Sam Jackson performance but that goes without saying. Oh, and John Turturro. Well ya know what... this might be my favorite of his. I've seen just a handful, but this is a great Turturro role. He really understood the insecurity and false bravado of a Pino-type Brooklyn schmo.
To your point regarding moralizing: my gut reaction is to go conditional/contextual as I err on the side of "Who put these rules in my art?" I don't want to suggest a piece's merit should be marred by "Did it convey its message in a way that's more comfortable to me?" Unless the more direct narrative could be reasonably singled out as detrimental. But again I like a case-by-case basis.
To sum it up, having rewatched it so recently, it's still on my mind and I get excited to recommend it to people. And excited when someone mentions they've seen it. The movie's infectious because it's so rich with cast, background info, the music, supporting players. Everything just clicks into place and functions really well, even as you contemplate it and play stuff back in your head. The thing just flows.
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GRADE: 5 pukes out of 5
NEXT TIME: I tried to watch Donnie Darko about sixteen years ago, but got distracted, so I will finally right that wrong and check it out.
Also, happy 50th NSI post, everyone. We are one-quarter of the way there! To celebrate, here are two quick Top Five lists.
Top Five Movies I've Now Seen Because of the Never Seen It Project
2. Do the Right Thing
Top Five Worst Movies I've Now Seen Because of the Never Seen It Project
5. Coneheads
4. Cabaret
3. Big
2. Bee Movie
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